Andreas Treichl trifft Maia Sandu: „Wenn Putin die Ukraine einnimmt, ist Moldau als Nächstes dran.“

00:00:05: The press.

00:00:12: that they will

00:00:33: not stop there.

00:00:34: It's one thing to be in Moldova and see the Shaheads falling into the yards of all people, it is another thing pretty far then Rache is far...and its more difficult to

00:00:48: focus.".

00:00:48: Maybe

00:00:48: you have already noticed how the press on Sunday actually becomes seventeen years old nowadays?

00:00:56: And as

00:00:57: always

00:00:58: in March Let's start the birthday party with a special edition and a prominent guest chef editor.

00:01:05: This time it is Andreas Treichel, the chairman of the first foundation under former long-term CEO of the First Group.

00:01:13: He worked with us for weeks on this anniversary newspaper.

00:01:17: The general theme is, save

00:01:20: Europe!

00:01:20: And

00:01:21: that's why we have in our editorial office for Treichl but also

00:01:27: for her and sang the European hymn.

00:01:32: The choir was extremely well

00:01:43: equipped, from CEO of the press to vice-chef editor and chief assistant.

00:01:51: You can find the video on YouTube and all of our channels, if you are new to it.

00:01:57: And Reichl has also interviewed and interviewed her conversation partner herself.

00:02:03: Among them was about Maya Sandu – she's been president in the Republic of Moldova since year two twenty-two.

00:02:09: In a talk with Reichle and Christian Ultz, the deputy director of the press, in our video studio, Sandu explains how difficult it is for her country between a war place and an uncertain EU future.

00:02:23: It speaks openly about Russian selection, illegal troops on Moldavian soil... ...and what a Russian victory in Ukraine for Ireland would mean to the whole of Europe.

00:02:35: You can now hear this complete conversation here at this podcast.

00:02:40: By the way you are also allowed to watch it on our channels on YouTube or on our website.

00:02:45: The interview was conducted in English.

00:02:49: The German version of the conversation is

00:02:57: read on

00:02:59: the first double page in the anniversary edition of March,

00:03:08: which you should not miss.

00:03:11: Infos to the edition and links for the Abo are in the show notes.

00:03:17: Thank you very much!

00:03:20: What is it like for a small democracy?

00:03:25: A democracy in a small country, like Moldova.

00:03:29: Being situated where this situates what it's like in geopolitical times Like these were might makes right again to survive as a democracy.

00:03:44: It not easy and even before The geopolitical events started to unfold the way they're unfolding.

00:03:53: We knew that it's difficult for a small and still fragile democracy to survive alone, That is why we are so committed.

00:04:03: with the EU integration of Moldova And now its just becoming more complicated.

00:04:10: It's important for us to move fast To fulfill all the commitments we have towards EU Hoping that you will also make a fulfill its commitments towards model art, towards other candidate countries.

00:04:27: So we could become part of the bigger family where were going to feel safer.

00:04:33: Andreas Streichli do have feeling?

00:04:36: That aside from lofty declarations it is understood by European one particularly Austrian politicians and citizens.

00:04:48: Times are changing dramatically?

00:04:52: No, I think it's not.

00:04:54: It's not understood and i think that we have Not a very clearly defined path for Europe under European Union And We Have not as Europe yet decided What is the scope of The union That?

00:05:15: And what's the difference between Europe and the European Union?

00:05:18: I think Moldova is in a very particular situation, not on a very good situation.

00:05:26: Its big neighbor is being attacked by Russia.

00:05:31: The only other country that is in the region which definitely part of Europe not being even talked about by Europe, because that's clearly in the sphere of Russian influence.

00:05:48: So for Moldova and President of Moldov, a very difficult situation... In my view would need much clearer commitment on part of European Union to say well, Moldova is part of Europe And it will be part of the union one day in whichever way.

00:06:11: and What?

00:06:13: The country presently needs is dramatic economic support.

00:06:16: I mean, It's nice what's being done but there could be much more.

00:06:27: I wonder...what your view on this idea of the so-called zone of influence, because we can hear it not only from Moscow these days but also in Washington.

00:06:42: So what comes up in your mind if you here this term?

00:06:47: Well... We have experienced that before.

00:06:49: It's a new notion for us.

00:06:53: Moldova was denied its independence before, during the Soviet Union and after the Soviet union Russia has been done everything it could to keep us in a gray zone which is same like a buffer zone.

00:07:08: And this not good.

00:07:11: we know what it meant.

00:07:14: that's why want be part of free world.

00:07:18: We don't want Russia use Moldova against the free world, against EU as it is happening today with Belarus.

00:07:29: So when we talk about the EU integration... It's not only about the safety of Moldova but also security for the EU because if countries like Moldovia are not

00:07:42: allowed

00:07:43: to become part of the EU then these countries might will be used by Russia against the continent.

00:07:53: Let's talk about this EU succession a little bit later, I wonder what would be the consequences?

00:08:02: It is a hypothetical question of course but What would be consequence for Europe and Moldova in particular if Putin gets his way in Ukraine and wins.

00:08:18: This is putting in danger the peace on a continent, because if he's not stopped in Ukraine... ...and Ukraine has been very brave and resilient but it needs support from other countries.

00:08:34: And if Russia isn't stopped by Ukraine then peace will be in danger Not only Europe in other parts of the world as well.

00:08:46: I think it's pretty simple, you just have to look at this situation right now.

00:08:50: we talked about Belarus.

00:08:52: clear what is going on there if Putin gets Ukraine?

00:08:59: Moldova presently totally is encompassed by Ukraine and Romania.

00:09:04: The eastern part of Moldovan is Transnistria.

00:09:07: so If Putin get Ukraine What will happen next?

00:09:13: totally logic and it will happen.

00:09:16: So I think looking forward, you should also put on the table that if Russia gets Ukraine... ...the likelihood he'll take Moldova or part of it is a hundred percent!

00:09:34: And not just Moldova?

00:09:36: It's all the countries in the region are in danger.

00:09:39: So for you it must feel somehow as a race against time, I mean... You have this aim to become a member of the European Union by two thousand thirty.

00:09:49: and well that is not a long time Is it?

00:09:53: We made a commitment To make The country ready By two thousand and thirty.

00:10:00: Of course we can't Make decisions on behalf of EU Member States And even institutions but we can deliver.

00:10:07: and the latest report by EU, by the Commission show that Modova has made very good progress.

00:10:16: Actually they called us best student among candidate countries.

00:10:19: We still have issues to work on But really believe in next two years we can achieve great progress And make country ready.

00:10:31: I mean, there's a lot of support by the European Union as far as I get it.

00:10:36: But what is your take Mr.

00:10:39: Teigli?

00:10:39: Is it enough support or are you doing enough for countries like Moldova right now?

00:10:47: Well...I think that decision has to be made based on what i said before.

00:10:52: and what does Europe want?

00:10:54: let us assume Russia takes Ukraine, then the pass is very clear.

00:10:59: Let's assume that other thing happens and Russia does not take Ukraine.

00:11:04: Then you will have a lot of money pouring into Ukraine.

00:11:08: Living standards in the Ukraine would go up Romania on pretty good path Moldova between Ukraine and Romania.

00:11:19: And what happened to Slovenia which was pretty much same size as Moldov?

00:11:25: why shouldn't that happen to Moldova's too?

00:11:28: And if we have peace and the Ukraine stays with Europe, and the economies in the region develop as they could.

00:11:36: Moldov

00:11:37: will benefit dramatically.

00:11:38: so the choice for Europe is very clear.

00:11:45: Actually I'm confident that Ukraine would resist it.

00:11:48: It is difficult for them but from what We, you know from talking to the people that I'm actually confident Ukraine will resist.

00:12:01: Of course... The fact that bringing peace takes longer costs also high.

00:12:09: First of all human cost in Ukraine but also economic cost.

00:12:13: So it is interest for everyone that Ukraine prevails That Putin has stopped And this would mean lower costs for Europe and other countries which are helping now.

00:12:29: But you would agree if I said somehow the fate of Moldova was intertwined with Ukraine, right?

00:12:36: Moldova enjoys peace today thanks to Ukraine!

00:12:40: That's very clear...I have no doubt that If the Russian army had been allowed To get our border then they will not stop there.

00:12:49: Do you think that was the original plan to build some sort of a land corridor, to bridge Russia with Transnistria and Moldova?

00:13:02: That is part of the plan because it's clear that Russia's plans are broader.

00:13:08: It's an imperialistic plan.

00:13:10: so yes at one point we saw some Russian military people showing maps because they were hoping to be in Odessa and Nikolayev in Odesa, then come to our border.

00:13:24: And there is still a number of Russian troops who are stationed illegally on Moldova's territory.

00:13:33: In the transition region There're some weapons from Soviet times.

00:13:38: We don't know whether their function or not But it's clear that I would try together To take the weapon.

00:13:47: Moldova is a neutral country, just like Austria.

00:13:53: Do you think that neutrality in any way protects Moldoa?

00:14:00: Well, when some countries do not respect the international rules-based order.

00:14:08: When some countries don't respect the borders recognized internationally why would they start reading The Moldovan Constitution?

00:14:18: I'm talking about aggressors and be stopped by a provision in the Moldavan constitution!

00:14:23: I do understand that this won't stop the aggressor But this is the choice of the Moldovan people, so we respect these choices.

00:14:33: This is what we have enshrined in our constitution and we're trying to improve the defense within the limits of the Constitution with increasing budget for defence...

00:14:45: It's still rather small compared to other countries?

00:14:48: Yes it is!

00:14:48: In

00:14:48: terms

00:14:49: of percentage of GDP I think its

00:14:52: around one percent

00:14:56: a lot

00:14:57: since we came to power.

00:14:59: It hasn't been easy because Moldova has been affected significantly by the energy crisis, The war next door had significant implications for our economy.

00:15:11: So given realities on ground We actually managed To increase budget and have this commitment to further increasing.

00:15:20: This is new reality And most important commitment of state towards its citizens is to keep them safe and that's what we will do.

00:15:29: Do you think the European Union in itself offers some kind of protection for member countries?

00:15:41: Not enough, but of course it does.

00:15:45: I mean... It's a completely different story whether part of the EU or not.

00:15:53: so when you look at the future no matter in how the conflict with Ukraine now ends, and you look at aggression of Russia.

00:16:01: And believe it will never change?

00:16:05: I hope that Russia would change to become a rule-based country who respects its neighbors' borders.

00:16:12: But as long if that is not the case, I would not feel extremely comfortable being in Estonia or Lithuania right now and they do not feeling extremely comfortable.

00:16:24: but i think it can be a lot more comfortable for the moment than Moldova.

00:16:30: so yes of course its makes a difference.

00:16:33: EU is actually helping us on defence as well.

00:16:36: They have now this European peace-faciliting mechanism and we hope that it has benefitted from support, especially for air surveillance because the Russian drones are flying over Moldova unfortunately so... thinking more and is doing now on the fence.

00:17:00: Of course, it's not a military alliance but its still better.

00:17:06: you do feel protected just by being part of bigger family already makes your less vulnerable.

00:17:14: this is already assigned to the aggressor.

00:17:18: I see because you've mentioned that Do You Believe That The Russia could return to a path towards democracy and could become a partner again.

00:17:31: When was the

00:17:34: last time Russia was a democracy?

00:17:36: Okay,

00:17:36: there was a time when it at least seemed that Russia is heading towards democracy under Yeltsin in the nineties.

00:17:47: but yeah Did you believe this?

00:17:49: It's

00:17:50: difficult for me to imagine something like that.

00:17:52: And I do acknowledge there are many Russian people who value democracy and freedom, but if we look at what is happening in the country... ...I don't

00:18:06: say it happens.

00:18:07: Yes!

00:18:07: But i think its possible.

00:18:10: It simply depends on development of prosperity….

00:18:14: …and distribution of prosperity which is extremely bad.

00:18:19: But I think the basis for a peaceful, open Russia whether it's full democracy or not that is different story.

00:18:29: Is Europe actually?

00:18:31: If you define it would be able to defend itself

00:18:37: or

00:18:38: deter Russia alone as Europe without any outside help.

00:18:45: That is the basis for peaceful together between Russia and Europe.

00:18:51: That needs to be established, that's key for it.

00:18:54: if russia knows this Europe is us And the borders are fixed then we can start living peace with Russia.

00:19:01: until We don't have that until we depend on The United States or somebody else?

00:19:07: And need their help in order To put at par military strings between Russia & Europe We're never gonna have peace.

00:19:15: We need to do that as Europe, then we will have

00:19:18: peace.".

00:19:19: Let us return to the European Union accession process.

00:19:25: I mean you've touched it already but if put in a nutshell what is the main driver for Moldova?

00:19:32: To become member of the European union?

00:19:36: What do you expect?

00:19:39: They want be part family.

00:19:41: For us its important to have the document.

00:19:46: We already had a million of Moldovans who are EU citizens, and one million out of two.

00:19:57: point five

00:19:58: were... You mean those ones that have a Romanian passport?

00:19:59: That's their Romanian citizenship.

00:20:01: so we actually did.

00:20:03: almost half our citizens have already the EU citizenship.

00:20:07: it is now for the country you know to get the certificate.

00:20:12: It is about security, it's about democracy.

00:20:26: presidential elections, the parliamentary elections.

00:20:29: The hybrid war that we have experienced is unprecedented even though it's not news for us.

00:20:36: but Russia spent a lot of money hundreds or millions of euros just to interfere with our elections because Russia wanted to get control over people who run the country

00:20:49: and then

00:20:50: to use Moldova as, as Kremlin wants for the benefit of Kremlin and not

00:20:58: Moldova to become a member of the European Union.

00:21:01: So

00:21:01: like everything, they could.

00:21:04: when we had the referendum on EU integration They invested a lot!

00:21:08: They did a lot of disinformation and manipulation just to frighten the Moldovans And tell them that if you vote for this was the main narrative.

00:21:18: If you voted for the EU integration then what is happening today in Ukraine will happen tomorrow.

00:21:24: Just to scare people with war They've been financing illegally political parties, of course a lot of manipulation online and through the press.

00:21:36: Cyber attacks... A lot types of interferences just not to have the Moldovans decide in favour of their integration.

00:21:46: Then, you know like every day the campaign against EU.EU is bad Every Day.

00:21:53: The Campaign Against Moldova-CUE integration.

00:21:57: The Campaign Is That EU Wants To Use Moldovah That EU Is Using Now Ukraine Against Russia And EU wants to do the same with Moldova.

00:22:09: You Wanted To use Moldove Against Russia.

00:22:10: So The false narratives mainly, but in addition to that as I said money.

00:22:18: To pay politicians.

00:22:21: What would be the added value for European Union of Mordova's membership?

00:22:32: Well look it is a small country But you shouldn't underestimate any effect on having an additional country that can create wealth for itself and in the future, also for The Union.

00:22:48: And what was a value of the Baltics joining European Union?

00:22:53: It's tremendous!

00:22:55: Imagine Moldova would be in the economic state.

00:23:00: one of those Baltic countries is in... ...would have been wonderful addition.

00:23:06: I think it's a principal decision.

00:23:11: Moldova is part of Europe.

00:23:14: And it belongs to the union, and we need take that decision at one point in time.

00:23:21: We should not think about how much more complicated the Union got because now have twenty-seven members.

00:23:27: That's already so many that will remain complicated.

00:23:31: If you add a few more like Moldova or the Western Balkans It'll be a bit more complicated.

00:23:37: The values of Europe and the economic strengths of Europe can benefit.

00:23:41: Do

00:23:42: you think that Europe should change its rules before it enlarges itself again?

00:23:47: It should have changed these rules already, in

00:23:51: a decision-making process.

00:23:53: What's your take on this?

00:23:54: There

00:23:54: is nothing to do with democracy anymore.

00:23:58: That's the dictatorship or minority.

00:24:00: what we had for the moment has been done away.

00:24:05: I

00:24:06: think in this new world where things are changing so quickly, you need to have the capacity to take decisions quickly.

00:24:15: So I do believe that decision-making process needs to be functional and for the EU to be efficient it should be in a position to take the decisions quickly because... The situation is very volatile.

00:24:33: You read one thing tomorrow on the internet, and then by end of day things might change tremendously.

00:24:43: But would you cancel the unity rule altogether in European Union?

00:24:50: We're not part of EU so it's easier for us.

00:24:54: but I actually believe that this is a solution.

00:25:00: I do understand that there are some countries which have, um... Some problems with that.

00:25:07: Especially the small countries.

00:25:09: but i believe that The benefit of quicker solutions Are bigger than the benefits Of the veto power Which can become a big problem for all the countries.

00:25:23: What's your opinion?

00:25:23: I would

00:25:24: put away with it entirely.

00:25:27: If we don't do that No chance and we have to introduce like you have it in all national parliaments Majority rules.

00:25:38: fifty percent two-thirds seventy five percent that I'm all for it.

00:25:42: That has to be very well defined.

00:25:44: But a hundred percent never.

00:25:46: no democracy In the world can work.

00:25:49: And no union in The World Can't Work if You Have More Than Three Members, You Need Majority.

00:25:55: You need Majority Rules Period.

00:25:59: You have somehow a perspective of the European Union until, at least until two thousand thirty from the outside.

00:26:09: And I would be interested to hear from you where do you see currently?

00:26:15: The weaknesses of the european union, the vulnerabilities over it.

00:26:20: I'm not going to criticize the EU i need

00:26:26: but you can help us get better.

00:26:28: Well,

00:26:29: it's about competitiveness.

00:26:31: Of course EU is the best place in the world.

00:26:36: That's why so many of us... The candidate countries want to become part of the EU.

00:26:41: Probably and I don't wanna sound disrespectful but probably Many of these citizens Don't feel anymore like the benefits.

00:26:49: But try take them this benefit away for a week And then people will realize what they would be missing if you not that.

00:26:58: But it's clear that the world is changing so quickly.

00:27:01: So, competitiveness maybe we need to look into our policies and see how we can help businesses grow change compete better because economy is a very important element of democracy as well.

00:27:18: I mean you really cannot have sustain support for democracy, if you don't also deliver on economic development.

00:27:31: What

00:27:32: about the biggest vulnerabilities of Europe right now?

00:27:38: The biggest vulnerability is that we have started a lot of things and not completed them And no construction works well neither in political world nor in corporate if you don't complete it, and we haven't done that.

00:27:54: The problem is there's nothing else like this in the world.

00:27:59: European Union isn' t only a union of states anywhere in the World And... We tried to build something which nobody has yet achieved anywhere In the World A union Of independent States.

00:28:13: I fully agree with.

00:28:15: one of best things That we could do Is take everything away for a year close the borders and let people feel what it means to live in a non-union, where you're back till

00:28:30: nineteen fifty.

00:28:30: A risky experiment though!

00:28:35: And put this from the other side... What are the biggest strengths of Europe?

00:28:39: Where do you see these big strenghts for European Union?

00:28:43: Well, it's about democracy.

00:28:45: I think the EU is the safest place for democracy in human rights and that why we want to be part of the single market.

00:28:57: It's a lot In this new world when big powers are trying you know change rules on game For small and middle sized countries.

00:29:12: The only solution.

00:29:13: Would

00:29:14: you agree?

00:29:14: I mean, we all see also authoritarian tendencies inside the European Union and look at Hungary for instance or other cases...

00:29:27: Well that's one of issues with democracy.

00:29:34: if you live a true democracy You have to accept that elections are being won by political movements have a different view on democracy.

00:29:46: You have to let them in, it happened in the Netherlands too and after awhile they're out.

00:29:52: It's the combination of the creation of prosperity And the distribution Of prosperity that is so wonderful In Europe.

00:30:02: you do not necessarily need democracy To create wealth.

00:30:06: There are lots states in the world That everything about democratic Are incredibly wealthy.

00:30:12: it is the distribution of wealth.

00:30:15: And, and... The fact that we have built societies um.. That has a social fabric?

00:30:22: That's substantially better than anywhere else in the world other then Australia and parts like that A few countries or Canada.

00:30:30: Um....and thats the beauty of Europe!

00:30:34: And Thats why We Have Social Peace at much Better Distribution of resources and prosperity in Wales than anywhere else in the world.

00:30:46: And for that, you need democracy.

00:30:49: um...and wealth creation for everybody.

00:30:52: That's what The European Union has to offer.

00:30:54: If you look at it What kind of European union would you to envisage let say In about five or seven years time?

00:31:07: How should they change?

00:31:10: perfect European Union in about five or seven years.

00:31:14: I know that's

00:31:17: one billion... Well, it should be bigger for sure!

00:31:26: It should be a serious player around the world.

00:31:36: It should be strong enough, including in terms of defence because it's clear that the next years or maybe decades are not going to be easy and pieces is gonna be challenged.

00:31:48: Economically strong.

00:31:49: so... The EU we know now which is a bit bigger and stronger?

00:31:58: I think at one point in time it should encompass all European states.

00:32:04: All these states together need to form a strategic alliance that makes Europe so strong, but nobody will ever dare move one centimeter into Europe.

00:32:21: So the borders of Europe are totally fixed and we need establish European Union which is more entrepreneurial less fixed on regulation than it presently is.

00:32:37: We have not found the right balance, I'm very happy that we had good and tough regulations in Europe but for a moment i think the prosperity of Europe was much better served by more economic activity and freedom and even more regulation the best and most wealth-functioning distribution of wealth in the world.

00:33:09: That is what actually keeps Europe safe, on that piece.

00:33:15: Europe should be a place where everybody else wants to be in.

00:33:21: Europe then really successful...

00:33:23: There's a tendency.

00:33:25: there are lots people who want to

00:33:26: move here!

00:33:27: It has to have the same borders

00:33:31: Yes, but where should Europe end?

00:33:33: I mean you've touched this in your remarks before.

00:33:38: Where should the border be drawn of Europe?

00:33:43: is that even possible?

00:33:46: Of course there's one part of Europe.

00:33:49: were you have geographical disputes with Georgia and Armenia.

00:33:54: are those countries a part or not?

00:33:57: something we need to solve at some point?

00:34:00: But the rest is very clear.

00:34:02: Iceland is part of Europe, Norway it's a part of European, Moldova as part of EU, Ukraine has to decide on its own whether they want to be in Europe or Russia.

00:34:16: we should not interfere and that you do by force.

00:34:24: let them decide themselves if.

00:34:29: Do you think that the European Union in the end will take Moldova even if the Transnistria problem is not solved by them?

00:34:42: I'm asking because Europe has also had some bad experience with taking countries, borders like Cyprus for instance.

00:34:56: It's really causing a headache now for several years.

00:35:01: So would you expect that this won't matter at all?

00:35:08: The main impediment to the reintegration of the country, the re-integration on the transition region is the legal presence of the Russian troops.

00:35:17: and of course Russia from the beginning provoked this conflict just to keep more of an inspiring influence and not allow it, too.

00:35:29: To choose Europe.

00:35:31: We are doing our best to solve the conflict.

00:35:35: we want to solve it peacefully so this is one of the main conditionalities.

00:35:41: So we do hope that Joe political opportunity might emerge sooner than later for us be able see the withdrawal from Russian troops.

00:35:54: But at the same time, I hope you are going to be flexible enough including for an option of integration and two steps.

00:36:06: Because if the solution or transition conflict is the main conditionality then Putin can use it against the entire Moldova

00:36:21: Recently in a talk, the rest is politics.

00:36:27: You answered my question.

00:36:29: I think it was hypothetical that in a referendum on uniting Moldova with Romania you would vote in favor.

00:36:43: Do you think that this is a realistic scenario, or under which circumstances would she agree to such unification?

00:36:55: I want my country be safe.

00:36:57: And I see the external environment as getting more and more dangerous.

00:37:02: The realistic scenario today it's the EU integration.

00:37:05: We do have majority of people from Moldova who wants Moldovan to become part of the EU.

00:37:12: For the unification with Romania, we don't have a majority even though there is substantial part of society between thirty five and forty percent.

00:37:22: And it's been like that since independence.

00:37:26: but this not a majority.

00:37:28: We take decisions democratically so... ...we continue with plan which was about bringing Modova into EU is also going to find solutions.

00:37:41: For instance, today Moldova has not been able to open formally the negotiations on several plus days not because it's our fault, but because one of the member states does not agree to open formally the negotiations with Ukraine.

00:37:58: And because of that we can't move to next step even though we continue work on all reform agenda But formally process hasn't started.

00:38:11: it's up to the EU to find these solutions, to open formally negotiations.

00:38:19: And we do hope that... That you will find a solution.

00:38:22: so we do believe in the EU integration.

00:38:27: but there are discussions of course.

00:38:29: how do we keep people safe?

00:38:32: We have to consider all options.

00:38:34: The option has to be chosen democratically by majority.

00:38:38: So that is discussion.

00:38:39: I find it interesting that obviously for you, the nation state is not so important in the end.

00:38:50: Let's remember history!

00:38:52: Remember Ribbentrop Moldova was part of the bigger Moldovas?

00:38:59: which now is in Romania, and it was part of Romania because this is how it happened.

00:39:03: So... And then the Ribbentrop-Moldova pact signed in thirty nine decided that Soviet Union Stalin wanted a portion of Moldova, which was part from Romania to become part of the Soviet union.

00:39:23: so you know It's about history here.

00:39:27: So in the end, but this is would be some sort of a plan B for you.

00:39:30: Right?

00:39:31: I think it was very parental remark.

00:39:35: We we have to think about all the possibilities To keep our country part on the free world.

00:39:40: This Is The Most Important Thing For Us To Keep It Peaceful and And To Keep it Part Of The Free World's.

00:39:46: i Think It Was A Very Brave Remark.

00:39:49: I Could Think Of Regions Where if the head of State Says Something Like That you get slaughtered because of that.

00:39:55: It's in

00:39:55: our constitution, we can have a referendum on that and it is the choice for people.

00:40:00: so the Constitution says such discussion could happen if majority would choose to do this.

00:40:09: Imagine you had a referendum like that in Slovenia with Croatia?

00:40:14: Yes, Royce.

00:40:15: I found it very interesting you as the president brought up this issue... May

00:40:23: i say something?

00:40:23: I just gave an honest answer and its not

00:40:25: for first time that I answered these questions.

00:40:30: To

00:40:30: me this remark showed how incredibly worried are.

00:40:36: your biggest interest is The safety of the people in Molleva and what you simply said, if that safety can't be achieved alone I'd rather do something else.

00:40:48: We hope EU is going to answer our plea And Moldova will become part of the EU soon enough later.

00:40:59: What last question?

00:41:00: I know your time was tight.

00:41:05: As a president, I also travel around pretty often.

00:41:08: I don't know whether you've been in Spain or Portugal suddenly recently but of course this is different sort not even remotely as intense of solidarity in let's say Spain and Portugal than in Poland for instance Romania with Moldova, do you have the feeling that somehow solidarity is determined by geography in the European Union?

00:41:42: Well I believe that in our region countries which had their experiences with Russia.

00:41:49: In the past they understand it better what's at stake and how dangerous this is And even not only with respect to Moldova, but also with respect for what Russia is doing in Ukraine.

00:42:04: It's one thing being Moldovan and seeing the shaheads falling into the yard of our people... ...and it's another thing to be pretty far away from Russia….

00:42:16: …it's more difficult to focus on.

00:42:19: So this isn't easy!

00:42:23: to pass these messages, including the message on they need to invest more in defense.

00:42:28: Of course, the first reaction of people would be we need better living standards.

00:42:33: why should we invest in defence?

00:42:35: But unless you are protected from drones and so on then you're not going to be able enjoy your social benefits or something like that.

00:42:45: We have to continue working to promote our country.

00:42:50: We do have a diaspora, pretty big diaspora in Spain and we had bigger now smaller diaspora Portugal.

00:42:58: I have to say that you know...we've got very good relations And i hope people there will support one of us integration.

00:43:07: Last

00:43:07: question too both of you You have campaigned for the European Union?

00:43:18: What is your advice somehow?

00:43:20: How can people, citizens be brought to identify themselves more with the European Union than they do.

00:43:28: The ones are Europeans!

00:43:31: They've been always Europeans.

00:43:33: it's just that history hasn't been nice for us When it comes to values, this is how we feel and leave the same value.

00:43:45: We have one million Moldovians abroad.

00:43:47: most of them are in European countries so they know that probably every single family has somebody who continues working for European countries.

00:43:59: There's a lot of Russian propaganda which is trying to frighten people or scare people.

00:44:04: This where you need to do better at, you know, uncovering these attempts by Russia to portray EU as the evil because this is what Russia's trying to do.

00:44:19: But otherwise also the EU needs in simple ways, not technical.

00:44:27: Because UU has been helping even before.

00:44:31: but if the communication about this support and these projects is too technical then it doesn't reach to people while Russia's propaganda you know they're very good at putting their messages In a way that It gets to people.

00:44:48: And this basically to scare people because Russia's propagandas.

00:44:52: EU means you have no traditions, EU means that all that is your Moldovans are going to disappear.

00:44:59: and then

00:45:00: we have to remind people.

00:45:01: It was during the Soviet times when we could not speak our native language, the Romanian.

00:45:06: Look at the EU!

00:45:07: Moldova isn't yet there but the Romanian language already has an official language of the EU.

00:45:12: so... You need to bring in and remind people about realities.

00:45:19: Andreas, what is your take on how to create a more positive pro-European vibe?

00:45:26: Look.

00:45:27: It's the fact that people get used to the benefits of a union.

00:45:35: We now have within the Union eighty years of peace.

00:45:39: Everybody takes it for granted.

00:45:42: Every country has joined The European Union Has made progress in its economic situation.

00:45:50: So all the people have benefited and prosperity has increased, some haven't.

00:45:57: And even that increase in prosperity is now being taken for granted.

00:46:05: so it's very difficult to up-and-up but we're falling behind many aspects of other regions.

00:46:18: Europe needs a push that makes people believe again, um... That the union offers them better life than they have as an Asian state.

00:46:28: And if the European Union isn't able to supply that The popularity of EU will not increase.

00:46:36: People have to feel the value Not only read about it.

00:46:39: They have to Feel It.

00:46:41: Thanks so much.

00:46:42: Thank you for this wonderful interview.