Europe’s Race to Protect Kids From Social Media

00:00:08: By the time your average European teenager hits ninth grade, The European Union wants a say in whether they are allowed to open an Instagram account at all.

00:00:19: In her State of the Union speech on September, Commission President Ursula von der Leyen announced the EU Kids Act which means no social media under the age of thirteen and No personal account without parental consent.

00:00:36: It is not law yet, it still has to clear the European Parliament and the Council of Member States.

00:00:42: And plenty people have opinions about this from children's rights groups... ...to the platforms themselves….

00:00:49: …to governments who already started regulating this on their own long before Brussels did!

00:00:58: Welcome to Lenz-EU Episode seventeen.

00:01:02: My name is Anna Wallner.

00:01:03: I'm a journalist at The Vienna Daily newspaper Die Presse where among other things I run our podcast section.

00:01:11: This episode is produced first in English and then translated into all Lens-EU languages.

00:01:17: Today we want to find out where Europe actually stands on this.

00:01:21: In the studio, i am joined by my colleague Anna Gabriel Our EU editor who covers these from Vienna.

00:01:29: We will talk about how von der Leyen's proposal came about and how it was received.

00:01:35: And we'll then zoom in on Austria, which already has its own plan for a minimum age of fourteen.

00:01:42: After that you hear from three more countries on where they stand – Poland with the report from Okopres, Germany with the reports from Korrektiv and Latvia with a report from TVnet.

00:01:54: But Anna I would say let start at the top.

00:01:57: What exactly is the EU Kids Act and how far along it is right now?

00:02:04: The EU Kids act is a legislative proposal presented by the Commission mid-September.

00:02:11: Its objective is to provide better protection for children, adolescents across the European Union against online risks and mechanisms that promote addiction.

00:02:25: What they plan is a general prohibition on creating accounts under the age of thirteen.

00:02:33: Then between thirteen and fifteen, independent accounts are not permitted but users can access mini-accounts that are managed or supervised by parents.

00:02:47: Aged fifteen and older these children are permitted to open their own standard account—that's we know about so far.

00:02:56: Okay, Ursula von der Leyen framed it in her speech kind of the way that EU is finally following countries like Australia who have rules like that already implemented.

00:03:08: but how much of this proposal is new and how much was already in the pipeline before a speech?

00:03:15: It's not new at all.

00:03:16: actually Every time the commission proposes big legislative proposals, there has been a lot of work.

00:03:27: So they've been working on this for months if not even years.

00:03:30: There are many experts in the Commission doing this and also Many member states are also planning to implement rules quite similar to what von der Leyen proposed.

00:03:46: And there was a lot of pressure coming from the member states, uh... ...to have general

00:03:54: EU-based guidelines.

00:03:58: Okay so we see that the States are more or less in favor of these new rules come along with the EU Kids Act.

00:04:05: but What Are The Platforms and the Tech Industry Saying?

00:04:08: The

00:04:11: tech industry's response is quite mixed.

00:04:15: It ranges from public support for the harmonized regulations that are now being planned on the basis, but they're also behind-the-scenes concerns and there many of them.

00:04:31: So then the industry generally welcomes you wide approach instead a patchwork of twenty-seven different national laws.

00:04:43: And tech giants like Mita also often point to teen accounts, which they have already proactively introduced.

00:04:50: so but criticisms arise especially concerning the reversal of The Burden Of Proof.

00:04:59: So

00:04:59: They Have To Prove That Their Platforms Are Safe For Children.

00:05:05: and that's what?

00:05:08: because they say it prohibits innovation.

00:05:12: Also, behind the closed doors there's a lot of lobbying going on in Brussels so they really try to convince politicians to water down legislative reform.

00:05:27: Before we zoom into Austria's regulation or plans, We can have a look to other EU countries.

00:05:33: This is also the reason why we do this episode because A lot of countries didn't wait for Brussels.

00:05:38: France tried to ban social media For under fifteen year old kids.

00:05:43: Spain announced something similar and Denmark has gone a different route with an alliance against tech giants.

00:05:50: rather than a hard ban In sentence two each.

00:05:55: How do those approaches differ from what the Ursula von der Leyen is now proposing?

00:06:00: The EU Kids Act differs, primarily through its holistic regulatory approach.

00:06:09: It's a three-tiered age based model and the objective of preventing a fragmented patchwork on national prohibitions.

00:06:19: While many member states are debating measures focused primarily on strict age limits and outright bans in social media, the U proposal goes well beyond mere birth date verification by holding tech companies accountable for their system architecture.

00:06:37: So I think that's most important difference

00:06:42: between you two.

00:06:42: Okay so let's come to Austria now.

00:06:45: The government agreed at a minimum age of fourteen In this March, and the draft law has been in the pipeline since July.

00:06:54: Where exactly does the law stand today?

00:06:59: The draft legislation had gone through a consultation phase... ...and is now concluded.

00:07:08: so!

00:07:09: The draft was submitted to parliament in summer and there have been over two hundred statements that Have been received from like public authorities associations, and organizations And the draft bill is scheduled by the government to enter into force on January first twenty seven which Is quite ambitious I would say?

00:07:37: Yeah.

00:07:38: It could be long time before the EU law would come into force, which will for sure take a lot of time.

00:07:47: Okay and what is the concrete idea?

00:07:51: What actually be banned under the Austrian proposal?

00:07:54: in which platforms or apps are explicitly carved out

00:08:00: In the Austrian proposals?

00:08:02: only social media apps.

00:08:05: So, it's TikTok.

00:08:07: It's Snapchat.

00:08:08: It is Facebook its Instagram.

00:08:11: no messenger apps like WhatsApp.

00:08:14: Interesting

00:08:15: they're not included in this.

00:08:17: with what I mean?

00:08:19: many children's protective organizations criticize that fact.

00:08:26: And then there is the opposition of course, particularly the FPÖ.

00:08:30: The party has criticized a plan already as an attack on young people's freedom of expression.

00:08:36: How serious do you think this political pushback or criticism from other side?

00:08:45: We heard already from that.

00:08:47: some children association protection or associations think it's not far enough, but is there any other criticism?

00:08:54: Yes.

00:08:54: Some think going far enough.

00:08:57: something should even be banned on social media until the age of eighteen.

00:09:03: and also the criticism that messenger apps are not included.

00:09:09: so many organizations just don't understand.

00:09:13: concerning criticism of the FPO party, I think a majority of the population in Austria but also Europe is pro regulations on social media for minors because it becomes more and more necessary.

00:09:33: And what the FPÖ saying?

00:09:37: basically parents should watch over.

00:09:45: Some might say that's true, but I think the majority is pro-laws against too early social media usage of young kids.

00:10:00: And a lot people always forget already now they're in their occupies.

00:10:06: for example messenger apps like WhatsApp.

00:10:09: it written down.

00:10:10: parents should observe.

00:10:15: As we know, most people don't do it because a lot of kids have used WhatsApp.

00:10:20: when they come for example to the gymnasium after elementary school.

00:10:24: For class and group and things like that... They use it already?

00:10:28: And I'm sure not all parents always watch and observe

00:10:33: what their

00:10:34: children are doing there.

00:10:35: Yes still The criticism is these Messenger apps can be an open door you know for harassment.

00:10:44: Because

00:10:44: often these, exactly.

00:10:47: These chats are the beginning of communication with people.

00:10:52: this young children shouldn't communicate with whoever it might be.

00:10:57: Okay let's come back in our last question to that difference between Austrian law and EU law.

00:11:03: if the Australian Law and the EU kids act both end up enforced how do they fit together?

00:11:09: Well, Austria's limits.

00:11:11: Austria's law would have to give way the EU-wide rule that is for sure.

00:11:18: The UKEDSEC is drafted as a regulation and its rules apply automatically and uniformly And directly across all member states.

00:11:27: So soon it will be implemented the Austrian Law.

00:11:36: But that means it's kind of chaotic for all the parents and children who are, for example now twelve years old.

00:11:43: And in the next one or two three years these different laws will be implemented.

00:11:49: so its not too easy to oversee the regulation process.

00:11:54: thats what we can say.

00:11:56: Not at all.

00:11:56: That is true, it can be quite confusing but what I can say?

00:12:02: that will take some time until the European regulation comes into force.

00:12:10: It always takes a lot of time and there's going to be lots of lobbying from tech companies.

00:12:17: so...it'll take years!

00:12:19: And because you said before, the Austrian plan is ambitious.

00:12:23: But when I ask you do think that the Australian law will be quicker than the EU law?

00:12:31: Yes!

00:12:31: Of course for sure you'll think.

00:12:32: so

00:12:33: yes i think it would be quicker.

00:12:35: if not at the beginning of next year then maybe a few months later in Europe its going to take two years.

00:12:44: So much to Brussels and Austria, let's cross over to Poland where the government isn't just following EU Kids Act.

00:12:52: It wants go further!

00:12:53: Our colleague Anton Ambrosiak from Okopres has been following this debate there with a ban on phones in primary schools for proposals that would cut everyone under fifteen off from social media entirely.

00:13:07: Here is his report.

00:13:10: Poland is following in the footsteps of most European countries.

00:13:13: Since September, primary schools have fully banned cell phones unless they are used for learning or safety.

00:13:19: but that's just a beginning.

00:13:21: The government is going a step further working on law to completely cut kids and teens under the age of fifteen off from social media.

00:13:28: Why?

00:13:28: Well, the answer lies in a flood of recent reports on our digital hygiene or rather the complete lack of it.

00:13:34: Data from The National Research Institute NASC is staggering kids between seven and fourteen spent over four hours a day looking at screens on average older teens five hours on weekdays an even more weekends.

00:13:46: What's more, nearly sixty percent of elementary school kids have an account on at least one anti-social media platform.

00:13:52: And as a numerous studies show these kids are not safe there.

00:13:55: One in three teenagers has experience online hate and cyberbullying.

00:13:59: Parents feel completely helpless right now.

00:14:01: They won't change and they're absolutely right because the burden of keeping big tech in check shouldn' t fall onto their shoulders.

00:14:08: Polls showed that nine out ten adults demanding tough regulations.

00:14:12: But The Devil is always into details.

00:14:15: Public opinion is split.

00:14:16: Over a third of polls, one's hard-bun for kids under fifteen.

00:14:19: about the quarter think that he is mandatory parental consent to all minors.

00:14:24: Some would prefer limiting the ban only to younger kids under twelve while one in ten demands radical social media ban for absolutely all miners.

00:14:33: Work on age verification systems has been underway here for two years now, but everything keeps getting delayed.

00:14:39: Why?

00:14:39: Because creating a mechanism that actually verifies age while guaranteeing only privacy is massive technological challenge.

00:14:47: Now even though Poland supports Europe's EU Kids Act the government wants to push it further.

00:14:53: While the EU proposes ban of independent accounts until age thirteen Poland wants to raise that limit to fifteen.

00:15:00: Everything points to the Polish bill being passed quickly, driven by upcoming elections in twenty-twenty seven and a broad social consensus.

00:15:08: The catches this national laws will be far less comprehensive than EU rules.

00:15:13: A National regulator simply doesn't have the leverage.

00:15:15: force Silicon Valley giants into what's called safety by design meaning building inherently safe apps.

00:15:22: The EU wants to sweep away addicting algorithms for miners by default blocking features like autoplay, infinite scrolling aggressive push notifications and contacts from strangers.

00:15:32: The Polish law alone won't fix that.

00:15:35: politicians shifted into high gear in early October.

00:15:37: Why then?

00:15:38: Because the country was rocked by a horrific string of school knife attacks carried out by minors.

00:15:43: This tragedy sparked massive national wide debate about how the internet and social media are radicalizing our kids, yet government's response relies on oversimplified slogans.

00:15:55: just ban it because Social Media is ultimate villain that needs to be wiped out.

00:16:00: The problem is conversation focuses entirely on banning young people rather than mandating rules for platforms themselves.

00:16:07: Experts calling this as long.

00:16:10: big tech fails to self-regulate external verification systems absolutely necessary.

00:16:17: who pretends to check IDs but lets everyone in anyway with an automated turnstile that scans your data.

00:16:24: But, In the long run this won't change much.

00:16:26: at best it just postpones the pathological issues you face online by a few years.

00:16:31: we are focusing on blocking access to addictive products and just naively hoping for the best.

00:16:36: The government is taking a piecemeal approach banning Pareto streaming banning phones classrooms banning social media.

00:16:42: Meanwhile, national and European regulators could join forces and simply force these companies to fix their products.

00:16:49: as the Panopticon Foundation rightly pointed out if tech giants refuse to comply we should strip them of their right to operate.

00:16:56: in a European Union.

00:16:58: We have the power to do exactly that under new EU Digital Service Act.

00:17:02: Access to the european single market should be a privilege not the right of strongest

00:17:07: I would say.

00:17:11: next we go to Germany.

00:17:13: There, Max Hillenberg reports for us an editor at Salon Fünff the youth newsroom of Korrektiv which makes journalism by young people four-young people.

00:17:23: and here is what he told us about where Germany stands.

00:17:33: The main questions are, at what age should young people be allowed to use social media?

00:17:38: And how can children and teenagers be better protected from the problems that can arise on these platforms.

00:17:45: At the same time there is now the EU Kids Act on the table.

00:17:49: Among other things it proposes that children under thirteen shouldn't have access to Social Media... ...and that teenagers should only able open an account independently from the age of fifteen.

00:18:01: Germany is looking at how these European rules could be implemented and potentially supplemented with national measures.

00:18:09: So there's no ban yet, but the political debate is definitely on its way!

00:18:14: And what surprises you about this whole debate?

00:18:17: What I find particularly interesting are how much people talk about young people while their perspectives are often barely visible in public debates.

00:18:27: At Salon Fünff we talked to young people every day And we see that they have very nuanced views on social media.

00:18:35: They are very aware of the risks

00:18:37: like

00:18:38: addiction, social pressure or harmful content but at the same time Social Media is also a safe space for them A place to communicate be entertained and find information.

00:18:50: So I think The really interesting question Is if adults Are deciding how young people should Be allowed To use social media How much are young people actually involved in those decisions themselves?

00:19:03: And Max, tell us how does this affect people in Germany?

00:19:07: and is the political debate developing.

00:19:10: For Young People In Germany social media is simply a normal part of everyday life.

00:19:15: You can also see that on the numbers.

00:19:17: According to the twenty-twenty five gym study A study on Young People's Media Use Sixteen percent Of twelve To nine year olds use WhatsApp Sixty-three percent use Instagram, and fifty three percent use TikTok.

00:19:31: When we talk to young people at Zalongfünff there is rarely a simple answer.

00:19:36: Some clearly say that they want more protection or think certain age limits make sense.

00:19:41: Others say a ban would take away an important part of their social lives But most fall somewhere in between.

00:19:48: They see the problems but would rather have Better rules, more control over the platforms or changes to algorithms than a complete ban.

00:19:56: I think these different perspectives are really important because the political debate is also moving beyond just age limits.

00:20:04: It now includes things like safer default settings The responsibility of platforms and media literacy And this where meaningful participation could come in.

00:20:14: Young people should be asked regularly what they think, involved in political consultations and given a real say to decisions that directly affect their everyday lives.

00:20:25: Because if adults are making decisions about young peoples' digital world – Their voices shouldn't only be heard at the very end!

00:20:37: And finally, we come to Latvia.

00:20:39: Social media is just as big a part of everyday life there as anywhere else in Europe and it has already left its mark on at least one election.

00:20:48: Our colleague Andres Timofeyevs – A journalist with TVNet Gruppa took closer look where the debate about children teenagers social media currently stands.

00:21:01: Social media is no less popular in Latvia than anywhere else in the world and its role has long extended beyond simple communication.

00:21:10: For example, in twenty-twenty two political scientists such a muted success of the populist party for stability In parliamentary elections to this so called tiktok effect as the parties members had actively used the platform during their campaign.

00:21:25: However social media did not save the party from defeating these years elections.

00:21:31: Public initiatives concerning social media have also emerged in Latvia, although my fellow Latvians have shown relatively little enthusiasm for them.

00:21:39: In twenty-twenty four an online petition called for TikTok to be banned in Latvia.

00:21:44: according to its author the platform had become a breeding ground for Kremlin propaganda and also raised concerns about personal data protection.

00:21:54: over two years The petition collected further than five thousand signatures and never made it onto the politician's agenda.

00:22:02: Nevertheless, some steps toward restricting social media have been taken.

00:22:06: this spring the same Latvian parliament expanded the ban on mobile phone using schools.

00:22:12: previously pupils in grades one through six were prohibited from using their phones but the ban now extends to grade nine when most people are around fifteen or sixteen years old.

00:22:25: An exception is made only when a teacher allows phones to be used for educational purposes.

00:22:30: However, the rules apply only within schools and do not prevent children from using TikTok, Instagram or other social media platforms at home.

00:22:39: More radical proposals to restrict Social Media were also discussed in Parliament this spring.

00:22:44: All three parties in The Governing Coalition supported the initiative although neither a specific age threshold nor mechanism of age verification was agreed upon.

00:22:55: One proposal called for particular attention to be paid to protecting children under twelve, while the responsibilities of both the state and parents were also discussed.

00:23:05: The health minister meanwhile proposed restricting internet use among children under fifteen.

00:23:10: he argued that such measures are necessary to protect teenagers mental health highlighting risks anxiety sleep disorders as well as broader concerns about Children's safety.

00:23:22: politicians know national legislation alone might not be sufficient and express their intention to push for common European solutions.

00:23:34: Our neighbour, Nistonia meanwhile has emphasised the importance of digital literacy and has refrained from imposing strict bans arguing that they could limit young people's success to information and opportunities for self-expression.

00:23:50: Some experts share Estonian's position.

00:23:52: Last summer, Latvian public broadcaster LSM published an article featuring comments from researchers at the Latvians Academy of Culture, who participated in the International EU Kids Online Study.

00:24:06: That was their research and analyzed responses for twenty-nine thousand children across nineteen European countries.

00:24:13: The researchers warned that a blanket ban could limit opportunities for communication participation in digital culture and the development of digital skills.

00:24:24: Rather than introducing sweeping restrictions, they recommend placing greater emphasis on digital education, combating cyberbullying.

00:24:35: For now, however the issue appears to have slipped far down.

00:24:42: The political agenda in Latvia.

00:24:44: members of our parliament are preparing to hand over power to a newly elected Saima which will face pressing security and economic challenges.

00:24:53: so whether this issue will return on the agenda for the new government coalition remains unclear.

00:25:07: Four countries, four different approaches to the same question.

00:25:11: We have Austria moving ahead with its own national age limit alongside the EU Kids Act Poland pushing to go even further and faster driven by a wave of public alarm.

00:25:22: And most recently tragedy Germany still searching for the right answer With young people asking to be heard in a debate that is mostly about them not with them.

00:25:33: and Latvia, where the political momentum for stricter rules has quietly faded since the election while Brussels tries to pull all of this into one EU-wide rulebook.

00:25:44: Thank you to my colleague Anna Gabriel here in Vienna for walking us through the EU Kids Act and Austrian law.

00:25:51: And our colleagues at Okopres in Poland, corrective in Germany and TVnet in Latvia – for their reports!

00:25:57: You can read more on this topic in our newsletter looked after here at Die Presse in Vienna by Tina Stani This week.

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